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Pieces of this story had been told from time to time and the details had fallen further and further behind until the day in 2010 that I received an inquiry email from one of the Razorbacks flight crew that had participated in this event. He was looking for some details about what had happened to the Centaurs crew that had been shot down, wondering if any them had survived, etc.

I was able to inform him that the incident he was referring to might have been one I was involved in and sought the assistance of Bruce Powell to see if he could help provide some details to the Razorbacks veteran.

The story about how the story was fleshed out is almost (but not really) as interesting as the story itself. The Centaurs webpage caught his eye and email communications speeded up the information flowing to and from the several parties that provided information about the incident. I present the story here in the manner and sequence that it recently unfolded.

Charlie Johnson – Centaur 40

08/20/2010 email from Bill Stribling to the Centaurs.org webmaster

Hi, A friend of mine, Gene Yonke put me on your website, and I would like to get some information. I served in the 1st. Div as a grunt my first tour, 66'-67', and with the Razorbacks gunship platoon in 67'-68' During the May offensive, one of your light fire-teams was operating in the Saigon area, and had a ship shot down in an area of dry rice paddies surrounded by bamboo on all of the dikes. This was near a notorious VC village. We were on a recon, and got a Mayday call from your downed ship. His wing ship had run low on fuel, and had to return to rearm and refuel. The down 25th Div ship was on its side, with VC/NVA assaulting it. There were casualties involved, and I believe it was the crew chief talking to my pilot on the radio. There were gooks everywhere on the ground, and we were taking very heavy automatic weapons fire on every pass. On about the fourth pass, we were hit hard by a .51 cal and had to put it down in a dry rice paddy about 200 yards from the fight. We were on the ground for about 30 minutes, and took a good bit of fire from the tree line, 39 hits in all. Our lead ship stayed and brought two F-100's from Bien Hoa that made 20 MM cannon runs on the tree line. They picked us up as soon as possible, and we returned to Tan Son Nhut. I tell this story because I have always wondered if your guys made it out OK. We did our best, but they knocked us down too. I would sure like to know who those guys were, and if they made it. If you could ask around, and let me know if anyone remembers that. I later heard that there were 5 gunships shot down in that engagement.

Bill Stribling

Razorbacks 67'-68'

08/25/2010 email from Charlie Johnson to Bill Stribling

Hello Bill. Thanks for the contact.

I'm not certain of all the details but it appears that you describe an incident in which my HOG got shot down. All of my crew survived with minor wounds only and we were extracted by one of the Armored Cavalry Troops tanks from the site where the helicopter was laying on it's side, as you recall. Regrettably, the Tank Commander was killed during our extraction.

I know there were several helicopters flying over us and I recall learning later about your Razorbacks gunship being shot down and the Brigade Commanders C&C slick also was shot down. As an aside, I was pleased that I was able to testify at the Flight Evaluation Board of the C&C slick Aircraft Commander which resulted in him keeping his flying status without any negative actions. He had been accused by the Brigade Commander of failing to obey his orders to leave the immediate area but the slick AC thought my crew was in great peril, which we were, when my wingman had to leave due to low fuel and there was no air support of any kind on station for awhile. There was a period of time when the only air cover we had was that C&C slick's door-guns.

I am sending a copy of this to Dale Dow, our unofficial unit historian, and requesting that he forward this to Bruce Powell, the Centaurs gunship platoon leader, who was AC of the other half of our gunship team. Bruce's recollection of the events is much clearer than mine partially, perhaps, because he was seeing the bigger picture from a 'birds eye view' while the range of my vision was about 25 to 50 meters laying there on the ground. Each minute on the ground in a situation like we were in seems to be an hour long.

I recall the Air Force fast movers with great clarity. You Razorbacks guys have had my great respect and appreciation for your actions on station and for calling in the jets. The only moments of relief I can recall while we were on the ground was when the jets made those 20mm gun runs. It was incredible. The bad guys did not stop shooting at us when the helicopters were overhead but while the jets were inbound and shooting the 20mm cannon, and for about ten to fifteen seconds after the Vulcan cannon stopped shooting, there was no rounds coming toward us. In fact, the jets were shooting in the tree-line close enough to us that we kept our heads below the rice paddy dikes too. Their bombs helped, but the Vulcan cannons got the immediate and complete attention of everyone participating in the ground to ground activity.

Thanks again for all the support by the Razorbacks. I have always had a special affinity for the 120th AHC due, in part, to this incident of course but also because I flew Centaurs HOGS gunships and I was an Arkansas native. How about that! When I went back for my second tour and requested assignment to the 120th as my first choice the SP4 personnel clerk working on officer assignments seemed to take personal pleasure telling me, with a grin he couldn't stop, that I was needed in the 1st of the 9th Cav, 1st Cav Div. You can imagine how much I looked forward to living in tents and sleeping under helicopters during my second tour in Vietnam.

Thanks for the contact and thanks again for your actions that day. My crew and I appreciate, beyond measure, everything you guys did for us.

Personal Regards,

Charlie Johnson

(Centaur 40)

08/25/2010 email from Bill Stribling to Charlie Johnson

Charlie, If you could have seen what we saw from the air, you would have truly realized what a desperate situation you were in. I flew over 100 gunship missions as a door gunner, and I have never seen so many gooks in uniform on the ground as I saw that day. There were a lot of machineguns down there as well as AK's, and there was more than one .51 cal. We took a lot of AK hits on our four passes we made over ya'll but a .51 was what really knocked us down. I have a pic of me pointing to a .51 cal bullet hole in our fuel cell of my ship after it was sling-loaded back to Hotel Three by a Chinook. I will scan it to you. I usually flew on a Hog, but was on the 45 team wing-ship that day. All of that bamboo on those dikes gave the gooks plenty of cover to hide behind, and I saw numerous bunkers in the paddy dikes. With your ship on its side, things looked pretty grim when we got there. BTW, the ship I was on was the usual 7 shot pods with the old flex-guns on each side. How did your tank commander get killed on your way out. What a tragedy to survive that hell storm, and then almost make it out. I have wondered for 40 years if you guys made it, and believe me, it warms my heart to know that most of ya'll got back OK. Maybe we bought ya'll a little time. Hell, they almost got us. When we hit the ground, our lead ship saw about 30 coming for us. That's when he called in TAC Air. All of us saw some bad stuff over there, but that day was about as bad as it gets in my opinion. I'm forwarding this to the crew chief that day, and the left seat pilot. The AC that day lives in Guam now, and we can't get in touch with him. The AC of the lead ship was Maj. Chad Payne from Oklahoma. He passed away two years ago. We have a reunion every year the week after Labor Day, and I haven't MISSED BUT ONE IN TEN YEARS. One of our former pilots, Bob Chrisman lives near Flippen, Arkansas, and makes all of our reunions. BTW, I would like to talk to Bruce Powell also if possible, and compare notes about that day. Once again, it is great to hear from you, and I am so glad you made it. Let's stay in touch.

Bill Stribling

09/11/2010 email from Bruce Powell to Bill Stribling

Bill,

I'm Bruce Powell, Centaur Light Scout Section Leader at that time. Great to hear from you. Many times I considered trying to get in touch with the Razorbacks that helped us that day. Like many people I just put it all away and moved on with my life. Who would have ever thought we would all live so long!

I wrote a lot of letters home to my folks which my mom saved. Attached is the one I sent concerning this bright sunny day outside of Saigon. Reading it brings back things that I'm not sure are real or maybe just conjured up in my old subconscious brain. Some things come back to me with startling clarity.

For example I remember:

...Chuck's brand new shiny Hog in the "Corral" (revetments) while we chatted before the mission. I think it was the first mission for that aircraft.

...The guy in black, out in the middle of a field between the tree-lines, waving both arms....and Chuck, flying as lead ship, calling me and saying "We're going to check this out, cover me." Jim Moore, my copilot in right seat (Jim was killed later by a mortar in the base camp) looked at me with an "is this a good idea?" look. I can still see his face.

...Chuck's hog starting in a dive, and then never pulling out

...putting out a May Day call on guard and to flight ops

...Jim being extremely panicked, more so than we were already, as he pulled out of one of the rocket runs. The aircraft jumped about. He said "I think we've taken a hit in the cyclic controls" (Don't know how many runs we made but this was probably the last of the rockets.

...a lull. We were out of rockets and mini-gun, both door guns jammed and low on fuel. Praying for a gun-team to show up and cover us for the pickup of the downed crew.

(I did not remember the Little Bear slick being the first on scene until I read the letter to Mom & Dad years later. That must have been the C&C you all were talking about. Who was in it? They filled the gap and kept the game going)

... The joy of that call when the Razorback team leader called me on guard.

...the Razorback leader was very fast in picking up my short situation briefing and rolled in almost immediately. I moved into a position to come in low, away from the tree-lines, and awaited Razorback to soften up the target and come back to cover me...Some time later Jim (Moore) confided in me that he was sweating bullets thinking that I (the known crazy son of a bitch) was going to go in for the pickup with M-16's and a .45 blazing, in a wounded aircraft low on fuel. Sure would like to hear remembrances from my other crew members.

...Razorback wingman shot up. Must be a friggin’ battalion down there.

...being extremely impressed with the Razorback bringing in the F-4's. What a show! and so smoothly coordinated.

...Fred Michelson (new Centaur Troop Commander) freaking out when he came on station in a scout bird (who was his pilot?). He just about screwed things up big time. (To demonstrate the strength of the subconscious mind: All those years I remembered that I put a burst of mini-gun in front of his ship and told him to get the fuck out of my airspace. After reading the letter to my Mom, I'm sure that didn't happen. Besides, I didn't have anything to shoot with!) I'm sure I remained on his shit list for some time.

...The FAC (Issue 12) saying "I don't know who is controlling them"

...Centaur gun team back up arriving (Woods 42 and Meeks 25)...at last, a heavy team escort Centaurs and the lone Razorback.

...Tom Meek's radio call to me as clear as day when he got shot up on the first run "Centaur One Zero this is two five, I'm hit, my copilot's hit, and I'm headed home partner!" (Read the letter to see the actual transmission).

...decision time. We were told that A Troop (ground) was moving in to rescue. I'm deep into fuel reserve with a wounded aircraft and have to leave. Can I make Cu Chi? or take the easy out and go to Saigon. We decided to cover Tom back to Cu Chi.

Pat Estes recalled in one of his essays that the Squadron Commander (Shea?) came on the scene at some point and directed the ground rescue. I would like to hear that story.

My hat’s off to Maj. Chad Payne. I regret not taking the time to seek him out and thank him personally for his great leadership on that day.

With input from so many of the players the whole thing could be written up as a classic Vietnam Air/Ground Battle. Maybe a movie!

Bruce

PS: In defense of then Major Fred Michelson. He had just replaced a very competent and popular Troop Commander (Tom Fleming), had no experience and was dealing with a bunch of battle hardened, "my shit doesn't stink" aviators. Later in his tour I'm pretty sure that it was he who volunteered to ride in the back of a LOH to assist in the very hot extraction of one of our LRRP units on the side of Nui Ba Dinh, and be on the receiving end my (and several other cobra gunships) rockets and mini-gun fire. He didn't have to do that.

09/11/2010 email from Charlie Johnson to Bill Stribling

Hello Bill. I haven't forgotten you and have just received a copy of the email that Bruce Powell sent you which passes along to you his recollection of the incident. It still amazes me how you guys who were flying over us have a much more detailed recall of what happened that day. It probably makes sense if you consider that my crew and I were concentrating on trying to be as small as possible. I mentioned to you previously that my area of interest there on the ground was about a twenty five or fifty meter square. You may recall some of the cartoons or comics from Vietnam which showed a steel pot and a pair of boots. I recall some of the 'Short Timer' comics that used that character. That was us - but without the steel pots.

You asked how the tank commander got killed during our extraction. After picking us up he was directing the tank out of the kill zone, driving backwards of course so the front of the tank was facing the bad guys, and firing the TC's .50 caliber when he was struck by one round at the base of the skull. I just happened to be looking up at him when the round went through his spine/skull from right to left, bringing bone fragments with it. He died instantly of course. I still carry with me a mental picture of him looking down at me for the second it took for his brain to recognize that he was dead and his body collapsing into the tank. That image, which is still burned into my brain, and the feeling that he might not have been killed if I hadn't screwed up and gotten shot down leaves me with a real strong 'survivors guilt' as you can imagine.

I'm guessing that the round that got him was one of those 'lucky shots' you hear about that was sent downrange by some NVA soldier who was as scared as we were. My door gunner had served in one of the Armored Cav troops before extending his tour to get a door gunner assignment so he had experience in the tanks and was able to take over the Tank Commander's position and direct the tank back to where it was safe (enough) for us to exit the tank. I also recall that, after dismounting from the tank and moving to an area behind several of the APCs awaiting a helicopter to pick us up, there were so many rounds flying through the air (and occasionally through one of the APCs) that I thought it might be better to get back inside the tank!

I trust you will not mind if I copy this email to several of the Centaurs veterans. In particular, Bain Cowell and Rick Arthur who are working on a unit history project. The information you have been able to provide, along with the details that Bruce Powell has noted, may be of some help to their project.

Regarding some of Bruce's flash memory items:

That was the first combat mission for that shiny new hog as I recall. My recollection is that it had fifteen or seventeen hours on it. I recall with clarity that it was a 'factory overhaul' ship that had been Zero Timed at the Army's Corpus Christi, TX aviation maintenance facility. The previous flights had all been maintenance and weapons certification flights.

As an aside - I recall signing a document that confirmed the facts of the loss of the helicopter (it was bombed by the Air Force as I recall and all that was left of it was the vertical tail fin) and included on that document was a listing of the equipment that was lost with the ship, such as the door guns, the weapons systems, radios, etc. However, the Troop Service Platoon/Maintenance Officer (Captain Baird? not sure of his name) recalled that some other items were lost when the helicopter was shot down including a couple of tool boxes, some calibration equipment, more machine guns, etc. etc. One of the jokes around the Troop was that we weren't shot down, we crashed due to the aircraft being several thousand pounds over max gross weight!

I don't recall the name of the AC of that Little Bears C&C slick but I do recall him coming over the Centaurs troop area to thank me after the Flight Evaluation Board returned him to full flight duty after the FEB despite the allegations made by the Brigade Commander. It must have been difficult for a young Warrant Officer pilot to ignore the direct order of his O-6 passenger to leave the area. I still owe him some cold beers for his actions that day.

Thanks again for your help that day and for making the contact with us after all these years.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson

09/12/2010 Email from Tom Fleming to Bruce Powell

Great write up. On the one hand I wish I were there on the other, glad I wasn’t. The Squadron CDR at the time was Ltc Glen Otis. Congratulations to you, your crew and all who participated on a daring, brave successful action. Glad you kept you letters home.

In May 1975 I took all my letters I sent to my wife during both of my tours and we burned them and said “good by Vietnam.” An irrational act I much regret now although I did not send any graphic description of combat actions home to my wife and family there were descriptions of day to day routine activities and frustrations that I will never be able to recapture.

Tom

PS: for Charlie - The name of the Service Platoon Leader was Cpt Bob Blair.

09/12/2010 Email from Charlie Johnson to Tom Fleming

Thanks for your comments Tom, and for confirming that the Service Platoon Leader was Cpt. Blair. I remember him clearly but I couldn't get his name to pop back up. I was a young Lt. at the time and I clearly recalled his first name was Captain and his nickname was Sir, but couldn't dredge up his last name. He was a good man though and an excellent Maintenance Officer. Bruce Powell sent a reply to me recent email in which he noted the Maint. Off. was Cpt. Bill Blair. Bill seems more right than Bob but I don't recall either with any certainty.

I do recall Cpt. Blair on a particular post maintenance test flight where I flew as his pilot because he wanted me to show him what we put the helicopters through on a typical gun run. After I made several simulated gun runs in an empty Hog, which he said scared the crap out of him, he said they were going to have to look at the gunships much more thoroughly than they had been doing. He had no idea of the strain we routinely put on those overloaded C models when breaking off a gun run and pulling the guts out of them trying to get the hell out of the kill zone. I assume that you learned much the same thing during your time with the Service Platoon.

Charlie Johnson

09/12/2010 email from Charlie Johnson to Bruce Powell

Good morning Bruce. Thanks for the reply email.

Mackey either was, or had been, a light scout pilot but I don't recall his actual assignment at the time of this flight. I recall, very shortly after crawling out of the helicopter, seeing Mackey running across the rice paddy to get away from the helicopter. I could also see a whole lot of bad guys with guns in the woods toward which he was making a beeline. I yelled at him several times before he heard me and when he looked back toward us and the helicopter I was able to convince him we were better off staying closer to the helicopter and, more importantly, staying away from the tree-line. I was aware of our training to get the hell away from a crashed aircraft so we didn't get toasted when it blew up or burned up but I felt less concern about what the helicopter 'might' do to us than what I knew the NVA/VC definitely 'would' do to us if we got too close to them.

Mackey was OK with us staying close to the helicopter until somebody bounced a round off his head. He was laying down next to a rotor blade when he got hit. He yelled out that he was hit and I looked over toward him, noticed that his head and face were covered with blood and all I could do was tell him it didn't look that bad and he was going to be OK. I assumed at that moment, based on the amount of blood on his head/face that we would lose him before someone could come get us. Fortunately, what I told him turned out to be more correct than what I really thought was going to happen.

The WO Light Scout pilot that took the .30 cal round in his chicken plate was Darryl Gunn. Darryl's wife was living in St. Louis, MO where my wife was from and the two wives flew to Hawaii together to meet Darryl and me on R&R. He took that hit just a few days before we were scheduled to go on R&R leave about a week before Christmas 1967 and the doctors initially weren't going to let him out of the hospital to go on the long flight to Hawaii. Fortunately he talked them into releasing him from the hospital and he was able to go with me to Hawaii.

I have not heard from anyone regarding contact with either Mackey or Darryl.

See the item from the Nov 27, 1967 Tropic Lightning news which mentions both Mackey (Mackie) and Darryl (Daryl).

“Baby Scouts” Net 2

   Two “Baby Scouts” (OH 23s) from Delta Trp (AIR), 3d Sqdn, 4th Cav, found three men hiding in a rice paddy between Trung Lap and Trang Bang recently.
   Flying the daily “last light” patrol, WO Mackie Webb of Ware Shoals, S.C., spotted the men just north of Highway 1. He pushed the stick on his “Baby Scout” and plummeted in for a closer look.
   Two armed men started running across a paddy. Webb called back to base camp for permission to fire. Permission granted, his door-gunner placed effective suppressive fire behind the fleeing figures.
   WO Daryl Gunn, St Louis, Mo., flying security several hundred feet above swooped down for a better look and a chance to join in.
   A third man suspect was spotted near all the action. He came into the open with his hands in the air.
   Both scouts landed and Webb and his door-gunner looked for the two men in the paddy. He found one body but the other man had disappeared into the water of the rice paddy and could not be found.
   The detainee was brought back to the 25th Div’s base camp at Cu Chi.
   “We have had about 75 per cent of our contacts in this area,” Gunn said.

Thanks again for the info on this incident. I have learned more from you about what happened than I could ever recall by myself. Stay in touch.

Charlie Johnson

09/12/2010 email from Bruce Powell to Charlie Johnson

Charlie,

Thanks for the informative reply. I wish I had realized years ago how important this comparing of notes and memories is to all of us. They help eliminate the hundreds of questions that have been lurking in our subconscious minds all these years and rekindle a camaraderie that is extremely rewarding. You and Dale in particular have been trying so hard to wake us all up to this. I genuinely appreciate and respect your valiant efforts to bring us all back together. We all owe you a lot and I intend to try to make up for it by contributing where ever I can. I finally bought my new iMac computer and have just loaded the HD movies I shot at the Reunion. Tom Meeks is going to help me get the whole thing together onto a DVD in hopes that it can be used to get the word out to the other Centaurs that we want and need them to participate. I’ll send you and Dale a draft before we finalize it to get your input and approval.

Bruce

09/12/2010 email from Charlie Johnson to Bruce Powell

Thanks Bruce. Every little bit helps. I am hoping that the video you took will encourage more of us to record our unit history more thoroughly and in a central location, such as the Centaurs History Project that Rick Arthur and Short Round are working on.

I have been thinking about putting a section on the Centaurs.org website labeled "I Remember" or something similar to that. That section would house the recollections of veterans activities in Vietnam, memories of guys they served with or even small events, such as my memory of four Centaurs gunships escorting Bob Hope's C-130 off Cu Chi following his Christmas 1967 show there, etc. etc.

Note to everyone:

What do you think about that? Would something like that encourage some of the guys to tell their 'little stories' which might then lead to bigger stories either directly or via multiple emails, such as has happened here, with each email uncovering or clarifying something which might then lead to a more complete and more accurate history? Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson

Centaur 40 shoot down - Charlie Johnson